Scituate H.S. MSIP Project

Well . . . How about Sunday?

2009-02-01T13:18:00.002-05:00

The images are here! Go to http://www.gatesscience.info/teamescience/msip2009.htm and take a look. Craters and Channels, you're fine. Lava Tubes? I only see one. All three groups, feel free to use the "Wild Card" image as an alternative to your image. I'd like to see as many of you as possible Monday afternoon.

Clear Skies,

Mr. Lindgren

Don't Panic! It's what science is really like!

2009-01-28T07:27:00.002-05:00

Your images should be here by Friday. As soon as I get them, I'll post them to the MSIP projects page (The page you used to get to the blog). Hopefully you have everything except the actual measurements done by this point.

Clear Skies,

Mr. Lindgren

Things to do until the images arrive

2009-01-17T08:31:00.002-05:00

"I’m glad it was a neat afternoon. I’m also glad you were excited to put in a couple of targets yourself as well. The hope is, both primary and secondary targets (for each group) will be acquired. As soon as the images are down on the ground I will get them to you. Things have been coming down a little slow, so hopefully we can get an electronic copy of the images to the students before they display their projects. The images will be acquired on Tuesday of next week. We’ll probably not have them on the ground until you are here. We can have you email them to the students (or at least I can put them on a link where the students can get them) once I have the images." - NASA Scientist at ASU

So . . . the most important thing for each group to do is to get as much done beforehand. DON'T wait until the images arrive to start. Here are some ideas.

Craters:

Start looking at images from the satllite you selected. Try to get an image the same size as the THEMIS image. If you can't get one that small, then use a portion of a larger scale. Read this article - http://msip.asu.edu/uploads/243/paper1.doc it contains a much simpler graph from the one you were going to use. What "age" do you think your crater image was? Use that as a guide, and actually find the age of the lunar surface. Then, when you get the Mars image, do the same thing.

Lava Tubes:

Find THEMIS images of each stage in the destruction of a lava tube showing all of the physical characteristics. You have no idea on what you're going to get. Actually, one of the images I'm getting might work if your's don't show anything. Go back and look at http://www.gatesscience.info/teamescience/pdf/msip/finale2.pdf to see how another group did this.

Channels:

Research the depositional features that should be found in bends in channels. You are attempting to discover if the same is true for Mars as Earth. Go to Google Earth and try and find dried up rivers in the American southwest. They will probably show the same type of features as channels on Mars.

GET Busy!

Targeting Results

2009-01-15T17:28:00.002-05:00

ASU e-mailed me to confirm that the targets arrived. They have been put in the cache to be uploaded to the spacecraft! I've posted your images to the website. If you're checking this message you'll see that there's a new row in this table for the targeting images. If you click on that it will take you to our primary and secondary images. I'd suggest you start to write a description of that area now.

Nice Work, by the way!

We Did GOOD!

2009-01-13T19:39:00.002-05:00

Don't let your English teacher see this, but we really did GOOD! This is the best set of orbits I have ever seen! He have the Hellas Basin! I've NEVER had the Hellas Basin before. We have several passes through Valles Marineris. All three groups have a great chance to obtain great images, but you must choose carefully. Your answers must be sent to ASU by 5:00 p.m. est Thursday. The URL for your orbits is http://tinyurl.com/7288no go to it! Practice! Come to 121 on Thursday afternoon ready to refine your work and post!

Clear Skies,

Mr. Lindgren

Another Major Change!

2009-01-11T19:28:00.001-05:00

ASU will let all three groups target. Be sure you're at the meeting on Monday.

ASU Had a change of Heart!

2009-01-10T09:35:00.001-05:00

Good news for the cratering group! ASU will let you target. They'll send me the information Monday.

The News is not Good

2009-01-09T05:42:00.001-05:00

Here's the latest from ASU:

1. Crater group: Did this group not read my comment on their question. You CAN NOT tell which crater from 2 different surfaces is older – you can look at them and state which appears to be older/younger based on SPECIFIC features. The question as written is not answerable. They still did not talk much about what erosional processes may take effect on Mars. This should most definitely be included in a final report. If they are looking at 4 Mars images, they should also look at 4 Moon images. What’s to say that all Moon crater images will look the same? Comparing just 1 moon image is unrealistic. How will counting the number of small, medium and large craters in an image help answer their question? If you are looking at craters with the same diameter, and then you graph the diameter of those craters on the Moon and Mars, what will that graph look like? Will it show anything that relates to the question? As for the graph that was sent later – they need to explain this graph, cite the source and explain how this fits in with their project.

2. Lava tubes: Was anything much changed? There were images that were included, which was helpful. Is looking at only 5 images much different than look at only 3? If you are going to take measurements, why wouldn’t you graph your data? Why take measurements if this is the case? You won’t even plot your images on a map so that others know what lava tubes you look at on different volcanoes? And how do you determine if one lava tube appears older or younger than another? This is not clearly stated. What SPECIFIC characteristics will allow you to relatively age date a lava tube. The Pythagorean theorem will not provide you with the correct depth of a lava tube. How will you measure the length and the width? What happened to a data table?

3. Channels: What characteristics are they looking for? They have stated numerous times how lava tubes, flows and water channels form – but what are the distinctive characteristics that allow you to know whether you are looking at one feature versus another? How many images will you look at? The main problem here is that there are no characteristics of any feature that is described. There is still no data analysis section – how can any science experiment have no data analysis section? If you are going to analyze your image – how are you going to analyze it – there is no description of this. What characteristics are you looking for to analyze?

**For all groups they need to consider that their small amount of data gives them only a starting point for making some preliminary observations. It does not allow them to draw any reliable conclusions. They can state this, and should state this, if they only use these small numbers of images/data for the research. They also ALL need to specify what specific characteristics they will be looking for.**

There won't be time to do ANOTHER rewrite. Let's go with using archived images.

ASU's Reply to your outlines

2009-01-03T10:01:00.001-05:00

I took a look at these proposals and actually the crater one has more potential than the other. I have made some comments (in red) on both proposals within the body of the proposal as well as some general comments at the end. Both groups would need to make some adjustments to their proposals in order to be able to target. The Channel group has a way to go, though its doable if they do make some adjustments. The Moon group will need to specify where they will get their Moon data, as well as make some adjustments to their question as well. The crater group at least has some information that ties together their proposal. The channel group is very disconnected. Both groups biggest weakness is the fact that they want to do a scientific study with 1 piece (or very few pieces) of data. Answering a question using 1 THEMIS images is IMPOSSIBLE!!!

This means ypou won't have time to target and get the images back in time for the fair. Your only hope now is to work with existing images.

I need those outlines!

2008-12-24T12:50:00.001-05:00

Come on folks, push has come to shove! ASU needs their stuff. Send it to me NOW!

The News is not good!

2008-12-19T13:43:00.002-05:00

There is no way you people are going to have these things done Monday.

Craters - You need to tell me what the classification of craters looks like. You can't just say the words.

Volcanoes - What happened to finding the relative ages of lava tubes on the slope? That was a great topic! What you gave me doesn't even make sense.

Confluence - You're still way to vague. How are you going to identify these features. You really said nothing.

I'll see you on Monday.

More Information from ASU!

2008-12-12T15:16:00.001-05:00

This was some feedback from a scientist for your cratering group’s question:

In general, I think that it is a good set of questions. Thedistribution of crater sizes to get at ages will be a bit differentfor the Moon and Mars just because the cratering rate is a bitdifferent in different parts of the solar system. The difference is probably not that big of a deal, however.One general comment that I have is that I think that anything that canbe done to keep the question simple and well tied to the data thatneeds to be collected would be good. The atmosphere problem seems alittle vague still and of course should have a null result for theMoon.Students should think of the specific features they arelooking for.

Comments from ASU

2008-12-08T21:53:00.002-05:00

Listed below are the comments that the scientist in charge of the MSIP project posted. Review and do what she says!

Cratering question -

This sounds interesting – though the students should keep in mind that these ages would be relative ages not true ages. They should also be careful to consider the fact that there are processes that have affected and changed the martian surface that have had no effect on the lunar surface.

Lava Tubes -

For this one, I would steer them more towards “Does the number and size of lava tubes on Martian volcanoes relate to the possible age of a volcanoes. There is no way they can determine the age of a flow, unless they can differentiate between flows and if a lava tubes is detected on that particular flow. It they looked at the number and size of lava tubes on different volcanoes, almost looking at the distribution of lava tubes on volcanoes, they may hypothesize that the more collapsed lava tubes, the older the volcano. They should look up scientist thoughts on relative ages of volcanoes. For example, the Tharsis volcanoes are thought to be younger than Alba Patera (which is the large structure to the north of Tharsis). Other volcanoes, like Syrtis Major, are less “noticeable” and thought to be quite old. Maybe this group should watch the archive of our volcanoes presentation. That is available at: https://breezemeeting.asu.edu/p59558709/

Channels Question:

For this one, they may want to focus on what characteristics are generally associated with channels formed by water or lava and then use that criteria to find images in whatever area they are looking at, to see if they can make a determination. This group may also want to look at the archived distance learning presentation listed above on volcanoes as there is a discussion about lava textures and lava channels. They may also be interested in the Surface Features on Mars presentation that talks about volcano features as well as water related features. That archive is available at: https://breezemeeting.asu.edu/p50033490/

Sorry about Monday!

2008-12-06T13:49:00.001-05:00

I totally forgot that I had two meetings on Monday after school. Let's try for Wednesday.

Can we do it?

2008-11-28T14:15:00.002-05:00

I formally applied to ASU for orbits during January. Here is the reply. "Just wanted to let you know that I did get your MSIP application. I'm glad you'll have at least 16 students participating. I will give you and your students a good date to submit their proposal so we can make sure they can target in early January. I am thinking that perhaps if we get their proposals before Christmas break or right after Christmas break we can work on targeting soon after that.Do you think it would be possible to have proposals before Christmas break? Looking forward to see what your hs students chose to do and how they do. Looking forward to also having you out in Houston! I will confirm those dates hopefully by next week."

So . . . can we get the whole proposal written before the winter break? There's the challenge.

Invitations

2008-11-23T07:59:00.002-05:00

All those who didn't respond to the first request to join the blog have been invited again. Don't let this week slip by! Come in with two questions about your general topic. One of the questions should be answered by something like "yes" or "no." The second question should have some type of mathematical operation involved. Start work on the background research for your topic. Believe it or not, time is running out! Have a great Thanksgiving!

Clear Skies,

Mr. Lindgren

Science Fair Logo

2008-11-17T16:05:00.002-05:00

Be sure to go to the official science fair site at http://www.gatesscience.info/teamescience/shsfair.htm and check out the great logo created for us by Mr. Carroll in the Art Department.

What's Due Next Thursday

2008-11-14T22:53:00.001-05:00

Don't forget that you should come to the meeting in 121 with a feature you want to study. In addition to the type of feature you should have a rational for studying that feature along with the Massachusetts frameworks you will cover with your topic.

Welcome!

2008-11-13T16:45:00.000-05:00

I forgot to mention one area on Mars that we can't study. That is either the northern or southern polar areas. Other than that - go for it!